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First V-22 Osprey lands on an Australian LHD

written by australianaviation.com.au | July 15, 2016
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC MV-22B Osprey on board HMAS Canberra off the north-east coast of Hawaii during RIMPAC. (Defence)

A United States Marine Corps (USMC) MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor has conducted six deck landings on board HMAS Canberra on while the ship was taking part in Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016 off the north-east coast of Hawaii.

The landings on July 12, conducted as part of a US Navy and USMC aviation integration program to clear its rotary-wing assets for operations from the new Royal Australian Navy’s new amphibious assault ships, mark the first time a V-22 has landed on board an Australian LHD.

Sistership to HMAS Canberra and Adelaide, the Spanish Navy’s Juan Carlos I, has operated MV-22s on board over the past year, including an embarkation of the type.

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The Canberra will likely see Marine Corps AH-1Z Viper, UH-1Y, UH-1Z and potentially CH-53 helicopters cross its deck during the course of the five-week-long exercise, but F-35B and AV-8B “jump jets” are not part of the integration program.

The RAN aims to achieve full operating capability (FOC) for the two LHDs in mid-2017.

A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft prepares lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC Osprey departs HMAS Canberra. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
RIMPAC, which runs from June 30 to August 4 and features 27 nations, 45 ships, five submarines, more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 personnel, is the world’s largest international maritime exercise. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The Australian Defence Force has three ships, four aircraft and more than 1,650 personnel deployed to take part in RIMPAC 16. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
Australia has attended every RIMPAC since the biennial event began in 1971. The theme of RIMPAC 2016 is “Capable Adaptive Partners”. (Defence)

31 Comments

  • ST

    says:

    I might be a good idea for the Australian Defence force to buy a couple of Osprey’s, for use with these two new ships

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    It would be interesting to see if they managed to put it below deck to see how much room it takes….. love to see the MH-53 land on the deck as well as the viper and yankee.

    Pitty the deck isn’t rated for jump jets…

  • Fabian

    says:

    I really hope Australia buys the uh-1z viper and uh-1y venom to use on their ships, and can be also used on land for the army as well as the viper could be a replacement for the tiger.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fantastic news !
    I only just watched the other day on You tube the MV-22 operating from the Spanish LHD. The Footage shows the MV-22 coming out from Below deck onto the lift.
    The Spanish originally built these LHDs to have MV-22 and LCACs operate from this type of ship . The Australian LHD shouldn’t be any different.
    Not sure why the Australian Government keeps pushing for the MRH-90s, when there are better options available that suit the requirement for both Australian Army, Navy , Special Forces and LHDs
    Our forces and Equipment need to be able to operate on both land and sea as a complete package. At the moment we have holes in that package. Hopefully in the future Equipment purchases will be thought about with the Amphibious Ships in mind etc

  • Jason

    says:

    Derrick, why wouldn’t the deck be “rated for jump jets”?

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, heat treatment on the deck. The US had to add another layer of heat treatment pant to the wasp class landing ships, it would be the same if we had the v-22 and f-35B running of the two Australian landing ships

  • David

    says:

    Jason

    There would be zero issues operating an AV-8B from the LHD’s. They would actually be able to drag a heavier load of fuel and weapons off them due to the ski jump. Embarking them for a cruise would be a different matter due to the internal set up of the ships.

  • ULISES VELEZ

    says:

    THE MV-22 OSPREY GOOD FLYING MACHINE BUT VERY EXPENSIVE. OVER $80 MILLION DOLLARS EACH.

  • Query,..given the weight issue of our M1A1SA’s,and the lack of foresight in our Naval Architects in factoring this weight in the design of our new 12 Spanish LCMs ..would a LCAC fit in her? And if so,…solution to the weight problem, with speed and range! Then the problem arises who operates her,..Navy/Army or Wingless RAAF ?/

  • Jason

    says:

    Gordon you’re spot on with the LCAC , from what I have read on the Spanish LHD, it was built to accept a LCAC. Not sure why the Australian Government didn’t opt for this solution. I’m pretty sure the US Military would sell us some of these at a good rate . The US Military is already designing a new LCAC from what I’ve read.

  • Scott M

    says:

    ULISES VELEZ

    NH90 is 70 million so not much difference

  • Harry

    says:

    You guys are dreaming! As interesting as it would be to have V-22s or F-35bs operating off the LHDs, Australia simply has no, I repeat, no strategic need for them. Plus the cost of those assets would eat into the Air force F-35 program and the Armies modernisation. Not to mention eating into the subs program. Attack helicopters are, however, needed for the LHDs, such as the Vipers/Venoms/Tigers or what have you.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Harry, in the near future we will need to have the f35B and or a new heavy lift for the navy to operate from the LHD. I’m guessing some forward planning is needed as currently the whole of the Asia Pacific is locked into a arms race. Look at Japan, Korea, India, Indonesia and china to name a few..

  • Harry

    says:

    Cant disagree with you on the second point… but the first point… The F35B has been specifically ruled out by the military and Abbott, the only one who wouldve bought them, was persuaded. Cant see it happening. Re the heavy lift. The whole reason we got the dodgy NH90s was for the LHDs, not to mention the tigers. But I see it also operating Chinooks. So, yeah I agree heavy lift would be needed. Just dont count on it being the V-22s!

  • Fabian

    says:

    Maybe 5-10 v-22s will do the job and maybe a couple purchases of the venoms and viper. The navy is getting new Seahawks and the army and navy will be operating the MRH 90. The venoms and viper can be a joint army and navy helicopter program.

  • Jason

    says:

    Why would we buy the UH-1Y when we already have the MRH 90? Plus, the AH-1Z will be out of production in 2020, and despite having modern systems in still based on a 50 year old design.

    Instead, we should be looking at something newer that will be coming on line around the time the ARHs are scheduled to be replaced in the late 2020s such as the S-97 Raider, or an armed version of the MQ-8C Fire Scout, or even the DARPA-funded Tern ‘tail-sitter’ UAS?

  • Jason

    says:

    …plus, the V-22 has been on a ADF wish list for many years, but is currently considered too expensive to operate and support for the small numbers we would be able to operate.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, what about the Bell V-280, by late 2020. Just in time for the replacement of the blackhawks and NH-90, I can see the s-97 going into cost over runs and it’s a large helicopter with a small cabin…

  • Harry

    says:

    Jason, couldn’t agree more with those assessments! By the time we have learnt how to do amphibious operations properly and efficiently – with NH90s, Romeos & Tigers – we might have the chance of upgrading the sea-lift capacity to s-97s and V-280s or what have you. Currently, V-22s are unrealistic, as are the Vietnam-era armed Heuys and Cobras/Venoms. But we will also need some attack capability either in the S-97s or what not.

  • steve

    says:

    have any of the clowns who are advocating the purchase of helicopters lacking wheels ever worked on anything other than the 1:72 scale version of such?

  • Jason

    says:

    Steve – the “clowns” in the USMC seem to manage with skids ok!

    Derrick – the V280 is more of a Black Hawk replacement, the S-97 is an attack/ARH machine.

  • Steve

    says:

    So the answer is no then

  • Blacky

    says:

    Helicopters on skids on ship decks in anything above sea state 1 and a half are about as effective as a bead of water on a truck windscreen!!! Don’t even bother, she wont stick.

  • Jason

    says:

    Again, the USMC takes AH-1Zs & UH-1Ys to sea quite happily aboard their LHDs, LHAs and LPDs!

  • Blacky

    says:

    History tells the US military aren’t opposed to helicopters tipping off the side of ships anyway….skids just make the job easier.

  • Fabian

    says:

    Guys
    the s-97 raider is a light attack and scout helicopter, something that the old oh-58 kiowas would do, not to heavily armed and can carry troopsas well as scout. the s-97 is going to replace the kiowas in the US army. The viper is not an Vietnam era heli. The viper is slightly different to the cobra, it’s younger brother. The viper is heavy attack, and armed and updated controls were added. Bassicly saying, it is as technologically advanced as the Apache and further. + Jason, you said that it is supposed to stop production in 2020. Although they will continue to upgrade and the aircraft. The venom is a utility helicopter. Can fire 70 mm rockets and machine gun fire can be operated by crew, these aircraft can be used as CAS and the tiger is having a lot of trouble, by 2020, the viper is way better than the tiger, unless the US or Europeans create some sort of stealth helicopter.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fabian – you probably need to re-read and edit your comments before posting, as they often make little sense.

    I’d like to read your sources that say “the Viper is way better than the Tiger.” I doubt many Tiger operators would agree with you.

    The only real advantage of going with Viper is that it is comparatively low risk, has an established sustainment system for a common fleet of 200+ machines, and can be bought FMS. It offers no real capability enhancement over Tiger. The original requirement called for an armed reconnaissance helo, not an attack helo, and Tiger fits that bill.

    The troubles Tiger is having are in support/sustainment, it’s a little underpowered in hot/high areas, the HMI can be “fiddly”, and there are still some airworthiness issues due to European documentation. The comms bugs have all but been worked out, and the gun and sight combination are world’s best.

    And as I said, Viper production will end in 2020, and the Australian Army isn’t looking to replace Tiger until the “mid 2020s”, so unless Tiger replacement is brought forward or there are new orders to bridge the production gap, Viper likely won’t be in the mix.

  • Blacky

    says:

    Jason,
    Tiger has a proven history of being a poor performer in the Australian dust and heat environments. It comes not a moment too soon that the defence force have decided to give it the good news and relieve it from its pain!

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

First V-22 Osprey lands on an Australian LHD

written by australianaviation.com.au | July 15, 2016
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC MV-22B Osprey on board HMAS Canberra off the north-east coast of Hawaii during RIMPAC. (Defence)

A United States Marine Corps (USMC) MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor has conducted six deck landings on board HMAS Canberra on while the ship was taking part in Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016 off the north-east coast of Hawaii.

The landings on July 12, conducted as part of a US Navy and USMC aviation integration program to clear its rotary-wing assets for operations from the new Royal Australian Navy’s new amphibious assault ships, mark the first time a V-22 has landed on board an Australian LHD.

Sistership to HMAS Canberra and Adelaide, the Spanish Navy’s Juan Carlos I, has operated MV-22s on board over the past year, including an embarkation of the type.

Advertisement
Advertisement

The Canberra will likely see Marine Corps AH-1Z Viper, UH-1Y, UH-1Z and potentially CH-53 helicopters cross its deck during the course of the five-week-long exercise, but F-35B and AV-8B “jump jets” are not part of the integration program.

The RAN aims to achieve full operating capability (FOC) for the two LHDs in mid-2017.

A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft prepares lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC Osprey departs HMAS Canberra. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
RIMPAC, which runs from June 30 to August 4 and features 27 nations, 45 ships, five submarines, more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 personnel, is the world’s largest international maritime exercise. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The Australian Defence Force has three ships, four aircraft and more than 1,650 personnel deployed to take part in RIMPAC 16. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
Australia has attended every RIMPAC since the biennial event began in 1971. The theme of RIMPAC 2016 is “Capable Adaptive Partners”. (Defence)

31 Comments

  • ST

    says:

    I might be a good idea for the Australian Defence force to buy a couple of Osprey’s, for use with these two new ships

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    It would be interesting to see if they managed to put it below deck to see how much room it takes….. love to see the MH-53 land on the deck as well as the viper and yankee.

    Pitty the deck isn’t rated for jump jets…

  • Fabian

    says:

    I really hope Australia buys the uh-1z viper and uh-1y venom to use on their ships, and can be also used on land for the army as well as the viper could be a replacement for the tiger.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fantastic news !
    I only just watched the other day on You tube the MV-22 operating from the Spanish LHD. The Footage shows the MV-22 coming out from Below deck onto the lift.
    The Spanish originally built these LHDs to have MV-22 and LCACs operate from this type of ship . The Australian LHD shouldn’t be any different.
    Not sure why the Australian Government keeps pushing for the MRH-90s, when there are better options available that suit the requirement for both Australian Army, Navy , Special Forces and LHDs
    Our forces and Equipment need to be able to operate on both land and sea as a complete package. At the moment we have holes in that package. Hopefully in the future Equipment purchases will be thought about with the Amphibious Ships in mind etc

  • Jason

    says:

    Derrick, why wouldn’t the deck be “rated for jump jets”?

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, heat treatment on the deck. The US had to add another layer of heat treatment pant to the wasp class landing ships, it would be the same if we had the v-22 and f-35B running of the two Australian landing ships

  • David

    says:

    Jason

    There would be zero issues operating an AV-8B from the LHD’s. They would actually be able to drag a heavier load of fuel and weapons off them due to the ski jump. Embarking them for a cruise would be a different matter due to the internal set up of the ships.

  • ULISES VELEZ

    says:

    THE MV-22 OSPREY GOOD FLYING MACHINE BUT VERY EXPENSIVE. OVER $80 MILLION DOLLARS EACH.

  • Query,..given the weight issue of our M1A1SA’s,and the lack of foresight in our Naval Architects in factoring this weight in the design of our new 12 Spanish LCMs ..would a LCAC fit in her? And if so,…solution to the weight problem, with speed and range! Then the problem arises who operates her,..Navy/Army or Wingless RAAF ?/

  • Jason

    says:

    Gordon you’re spot on with the LCAC , from what I have read on the Spanish LHD, it was built to accept a LCAC. Not sure why the Australian Government didn’t opt for this solution. I’m pretty sure the US Military would sell us some of these at a good rate . The US Military is already designing a new LCAC from what I’ve read.

  • Scott M

    says:

    ULISES VELEZ

    NH90 is 70 million so not much difference

  • Harry

    says:

    You guys are dreaming! As interesting as it would be to have V-22s or F-35bs operating off the LHDs, Australia simply has no, I repeat, no strategic need for them. Plus the cost of those assets would eat into the Air force F-35 program and the Armies modernisation. Not to mention eating into the subs program. Attack helicopters are, however, needed for the LHDs, such as the Vipers/Venoms/Tigers or what have you.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Harry, in the near future we will need to have the f35B and or a new heavy lift for the navy to operate from the LHD. I’m guessing some forward planning is needed as currently the whole of the Asia Pacific is locked into a arms race. Look at Japan, Korea, India, Indonesia and china to name a few..

  • Harry

    says:

    Cant disagree with you on the second point… but the first point… The F35B has been specifically ruled out by the military and Abbott, the only one who wouldve bought them, was persuaded. Cant see it happening. Re the heavy lift. The whole reason we got the dodgy NH90s was for the LHDs, not to mention the tigers. But I see it also operating Chinooks. So, yeah I agree heavy lift would be needed. Just dont count on it being the V-22s!

  • Fabian

    says:

    Maybe 5-10 v-22s will do the job and maybe a couple purchases of the venoms and viper. The navy is getting new Seahawks and the army and navy will be operating the MRH 90. The venoms and viper can be a joint army and navy helicopter program.

  • Jason

    says:

    Why would we buy the UH-1Y when we already have the MRH 90? Plus, the AH-1Z will be out of production in 2020, and despite having modern systems in still based on a 50 year old design.

    Instead, we should be looking at something newer that will be coming on line around the time the ARHs are scheduled to be replaced in the late 2020s such as the S-97 Raider, or an armed version of the MQ-8C Fire Scout, or even the DARPA-funded Tern ‘tail-sitter’ UAS?

  • Jason

    says:

    …plus, the V-22 has been on a ADF wish list for many years, but is currently considered too expensive to operate and support for the small numbers we would be able to operate.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, what about the Bell V-280, by late 2020. Just in time for the replacement of the blackhawks and NH-90, I can see the s-97 going into cost over runs and it’s a large helicopter with a small cabin…

  • Harry

    says:

    Jason, couldn’t agree more with those assessments! By the time we have learnt how to do amphibious operations properly and efficiently – with NH90s, Romeos & Tigers – we might have the chance of upgrading the sea-lift capacity to s-97s and V-280s or what have you. Currently, V-22s are unrealistic, as are the Vietnam-era armed Heuys and Cobras/Venoms. But we will also need some attack capability either in the S-97s or what not.

  • steve

    says:

    have any of the clowns who are advocating the purchase of helicopters lacking wheels ever worked on anything other than the 1:72 scale version of such?

  • Jason

    says:

    Steve – the “clowns” in the USMC seem to manage with skids ok!

    Derrick – the V280 is more of a Black Hawk replacement, the S-97 is an attack/ARH machine.

  • Steve

    says:

    So the answer is no then

  • Blacky

    says:

    Helicopters on skids on ship decks in anything above sea state 1 and a half are about as effective as a bead of water on a truck windscreen!!! Don’t even bother, she wont stick.

  • Jason

    says:

    Again, the USMC takes AH-1Zs & UH-1Ys to sea quite happily aboard their LHDs, LHAs and LPDs!

  • Blacky

    says:

    History tells the US military aren’t opposed to helicopters tipping off the side of ships anyway….skids just make the job easier.

  • Fabian

    says:

    Guys
    the s-97 raider is a light attack and scout helicopter, something that the old oh-58 kiowas would do, not to heavily armed and can carry troopsas well as scout. the s-97 is going to replace the kiowas in the US army. The viper is not an Vietnam era heli. The viper is slightly different to the cobra, it’s younger brother. The viper is heavy attack, and armed and updated controls were added. Bassicly saying, it is as technologically advanced as the Apache and further. + Jason, you said that it is supposed to stop production in 2020. Although they will continue to upgrade and the aircraft. The venom is a utility helicopter. Can fire 70 mm rockets and machine gun fire can be operated by crew, these aircraft can be used as CAS and the tiger is having a lot of trouble, by 2020, the viper is way better than the tiger, unless the US or Europeans create some sort of stealth helicopter.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fabian – you probably need to re-read and edit your comments before posting, as they often make little sense.

    I’d like to read your sources that say “the Viper is way better than the Tiger.” I doubt many Tiger operators would agree with you.

    The only real advantage of going with Viper is that it is comparatively low risk, has an established sustainment system for a common fleet of 200+ machines, and can be bought FMS. It offers no real capability enhancement over Tiger. The original requirement called for an armed reconnaissance helo, not an attack helo, and Tiger fits that bill.

    The troubles Tiger is having are in support/sustainment, it’s a little underpowered in hot/high areas, the HMI can be “fiddly”, and there are still some airworthiness issues due to European documentation. The comms bugs have all but been worked out, and the gun and sight combination are world’s best.

    And as I said, Viper production will end in 2020, and the Australian Army isn’t looking to replace Tiger until the “mid 2020s”, so unless Tiger replacement is brought forward or there are new orders to bridge the production gap, Viper likely won’t be in the mix.

  • Blacky

    says:

    Jason,
    Tiger has a proven history of being a poor performer in the Australian dust and heat environments. It comes not a moment too soon that the defence force have decided to give it the good news and relieve it from its pain!

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

First V-22 Osprey lands on an Australian LHD

written by australianaviation.com.au | July 15, 2016
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC MV-22B Osprey on board HMAS Canberra off the north-east coast of Hawaii during RIMPAC. (Defence)

A United States Marine Corps (USMC) MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor has conducted six deck landings on board HMAS Canberra on while the ship was taking part in Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016 off the north-east coast of Hawaii.

The landings on July 12, conducted as part of a US Navy and USMC aviation integration program to clear its rotary-wing assets for operations from the new Royal Australian Navy’s new amphibious assault ships, mark the first time a V-22 has landed on board an Australian LHD.

Sistership to HMAS Canberra and Adelaide, the Spanish Navy’s Juan Carlos I, has operated MV-22s on board over the past year, including an embarkation of the type.

Advertisement
Advertisement

The Canberra will likely see Marine Corps AH-1Z Viper, UH-1Y, UH-1Z and potentially CH-53 helicopters cross its deck during the course of the five-week-long exercise, but F-35B and AV-8B “jump jets” are not part of the integration program.

The RAN aims to achieve full operating capability (FOC) for the two LHDs in mid-2017.

A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft prepares lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC Osprey departs HMAS Canberra. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
RIMPAC, which runs from June 30 to August 4 and features 27 nations, 45 ships, five submarines, more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 personnel, is the world’s largest international maritime exercise. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The Australian Defence Force has three ships, four aircraft and more than 1,650 personnel deployed to take part in RIMPAC 16. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
Australia has attended every RIMPAC since the biennial event began in 1971. The theme of RIMPAC 2016 is “Capable Adaptive Partners”. (Defence)

31 Comments

  • ST

    says:

    I might be a good idea for the Australian Defence force to buy a couple of Osprey’s, for use with these two new ships

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    It would be interesting to see if they managed to put it below deck to see how much room it takes….. love to see the MH-53 land on the deck as well as the viper and yankee.

    Pitty the deck isn’t rated for jump jets…

  • Fabian

    says:

    I really hope Australia buys the uh-1z viper and uh-1y venom to use on their ships, and can be also used on land for the army as well as the viper could be a replacement for the tiger.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fantastic news !
    I only just watched the other day on You tube the MV-22 operating from the Spanish LHD. The Footage shows the MV-22 coming out from Below deck onto the lift.
    The Spanish originally built these LHDs to have MV-22 and LCACs operate from this type of ship . The Australian LHD shouldn’t be any different.
    Not sure why the Australian Government keeps pushing for the MRH-90s, when there are better options available that suit the requirement for both Australian Army, Navy , Special Forces and LHDs
    Our forces and Equipment need to be able to operate on both land and sea as a complete package. At the moment we have holes in that package. Hopefully in the future Equipment purchases will be thought about with the Amphibious Ships in mind etc

  • Jason

    says:

    Derrick, why wouldn’t the deck be “rated for jump jets”?

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, heat treatment on the deck. The US had to add another layer of heat treatment pant to the wasp class landing ships, it would be the same if we had the v-22 and f-35B running of the two Australian landing ships

  • David

    says:

    Jason

    There would be zero issues operating an AV-8B from the LHD’s. They would actually be able to drag a heavier load of fuel and weapons off them due to the ski jump. Embarking them for a cruise would be a different matter due to the internal set up of the ships.

  • ULISES VELEZ

    says:

    THE MV-22 OSPREY GOOD FLYING MACHINE BUT VERY EXPENSIVE. OVER $80 MILLION DOLLARS EACH.

  • Query,..given the weight issue of our M1A1SA’s,and the lack of foresight in our Naval Architects in factoring this weight in the design of our new 12 Spanish LCMs ..would a LCAC fit in her? And if so,…solution to the weight problem, with speed and range! Then the problem arises who operates her,..Navy/Army or Wingless RAAF ?/

  • Jason

    says:

    Gordon you’re spot on with the LCAC , from what I have read on the Spanish LHD, it was built to accept a LCAC. Not sure why the Australian Government didn’t opt for this solution. I’m pretty sure the US Military would sell us some of these at a good rate . The US Military is already designing a new LCAC from what I’ve read.

  • Scott M

    says:

    ULISES VELEZ

    NH90 is 70 million so not much difference

  • Harry

    says:

    You guys are dreaming! As interesting as it would be to have V-22s or F-35bs operating off the LHDs, Australia simply has no, I repeat, no strategic need for them. Plus the cost of those assets would eat into the Air force F-35 program and the Armies modernisation. Not to mention eating into the subs program. Attack helicopters are, however, needed for the LHDs, such as the Vipers/Venoms/Tigers or what have you.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Harry, in the near future we will need to have the f35B and or a new heavy lift for the navy to operate from the LHD. I’m guessing some forward planning is needed as currently the whole of the Asia Pacific is locked into a arms race. Look at Japan, Korea, India, Indonesia and china to name a few..

  • Harry

    says:

    Cant disagree with you on the second point… but the first point… The F35B has been specifically ruled out by the military and Abbott, the only one who wouldve bought them, was persuaded. Cant see it happening. Re the heavy lift. The whole reason we got the dodgy NH90s was for the LHDs, not to mention the tigers. But I see it also operating Chinooks. So, yeah I agree heavy lift would be needed. Just dont count on it being the V-22s!

  • Fabian

    says:

    Maybe 5-10 v-22s will do the job and maybe a couple purchases of the venoms and viper. The navy is getting new Seahawks and the army and navy will be operating the MRH 90. The venoms and viper can be a joint army and navy helicopter program.

  • Jason

    says:

    Why would we buy the UH-1Y when we already have the MRH 90? Plus, the AH-1Z will be out of production in 2020, and despite having modern systems in still based on a 50 year old design.

    Instead, we should be looking at something newer that will be coming on line around the time the ARHs are scheduled to be replaced in the late 2020s such as the S-97 Raider, or an armed version of the MQ-8C Fire Scout, or even the DARPA-funded Tern ‘tail-sitter’ UAS?

  • Jason

    says:

    …plus, the V-22 has been on a ADF wish list for many years, but is currently considered too expensive to operate and support for the small numbers we would be able to operate.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, what about the Bell V-280, by late 2020. Just in time for the replacement of the blackhawks and NH-90, I can see the s-97 going into cost over runs and it’s a large helicopter with a small cabin…

  • Harry

    says:

    Jason, couldn’t agree more with those assessments! By the time we have learnt how to do amphibious operations properly and efficiently – with NH90s, Romeos & Tigers – we might have the chance of upgrading the sea-lift capacity to s-97s and V-280s or what have you. Currently, V-22s are unrealistic, as are the Vietnam-era armed Heuys and Cobras/Venoms. But we will also need some attack capability either in the S-97s or what not.

  • steve

    says:

    have any of the clowns who are advocating the purchase of helicopters lacking wheels ever worked on anything other than the 1:72 scale version of such?

  • Jason

    says:

    Steve – the “clowns” in the USMC seem to manage with skids ok!

    Derrick – the V280 is more of a Black Hawk replacement, the S-97 is an attack/ARH machine.

  • Steve

    says:

    So the answer is no then

  • Blacky

    says:

    Helicopters on skids on ship decks in anything above sea state 1 and a half are about as effective as a bead of water on a truck windscreen!!! Don’t even bother, she wont stick.

  • Jason

    says:

    Again, the USMC takes AH-1Zs & UH-1Ys to sea quite happily aboard their LHDs, LHAs and LPDs!

  • Blacky

    says:

    History tells the US military aren’t opposed to helicopters tipping off the side of ships anyway….skids just make the job easier.

  • Fabian

    says:

    Guys
    the s-97 raider is a light attack and scout helicopter, something that the old oh-58 kiowas would do, not to heavily armed and can carry troopsas well as scout. the s-97 is going to replace the kiowas in the US army. The viper is not an Vietnam era heli. The viper is slightly different to the cobra, it’s younger brother. The viper is heavy attack, and armed and updated controls were added. Bassicly saying, it is as technologically advanced as the Apache and further. + Jason, you said that it is supposed to stop production in 2020. Although they will continue to upgrade and the aircraft. The venom is a utility helicopter. Can fire 70 mm rockets and machine gun fire can be operated by crew, these aircraft can be used as CAS and the tiger is having a lot of trouble, by 2020, the viper is way better than the tiger, unless the US or Europeans create some sort of stealth helicopter.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fabian – you probably need to re-read and edit your comments before posting, as they often make little sense.

    I’d like to read your sources that say “the Viper is way better than the Tiger.” I doubt many Tiger operators would agree with you.

    The only real advantage of going with Viper is that it is comparatively low risk, has an established sustainment system for a common fleet of 200+ machines, and can be bought FMS. It offers no real capability enhancement over Tiger. The original requirement called for an armed reconnaissance helo, not an attack helo, and Tiger fits that bill.

    The troubles Tiger is having are in support/sustainment, it’s a little underpowered in hot/high areas, the HMI can be “fiddly”, and there are still some airworthiness issues due to European documentation. The comms bugs have all but been worked out, and the gun and sight combination are world’s best.

    And as I said, Viper production will end in 2020, and the Australian Army isn’t looking to replace Tiger until the “mid 2020s”, so unless Tiger replacement is brought forward or there are new orders to bridge the production gap, Viper likely won’t be in the mix.

  • Blacky

    says:

    Jason,
    Tiger has a proven history of being a poor performer in the Australian dust and heat environments. It comes not a moment too soon that the defence force have decided to give it the good news and relieve it from its pain!

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First V-22 Osprey lands on an Australian LHD

written by australianaviation.com.au | July 15, 2016
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC MV-22B Osprey on board HMAS Canberra off the north-east coast of Hawaii during RIMPAC. (Defence)

A United States Marine Corps (USMC) MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor has conducted six deck landings on board HMAS Canberra on while the ship was taking part in Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016 off the north-east coast of Hawaii.

The landings on July 12, conducted as part of a US Navy and USMC aviation integration program to clear its rotary-wing assets for operations from the new Royal Australian Navy’s new amphibious assault ships, mark the first time a V-22 has landed on board an Australian LHD.

Sistership to HMAS Canberra and Adelaide, the Spanish Navy’s Juan Carlos I, has operated MV-22s on board over the past year, including an embarkation of the type.

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The Canberra will likely see Marine Corps AH-1Z Viper, UH-1Y, UH-1Z and potentially CH-53 helicopters cross its deck during the course of the five-week-long exercise, but F-35B and AV-8B “jump jets” are not part of the integration program.

The RAN aims to achieve full operating capability (FOC) for the two LHDs in mid-2017.

A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft prepares lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The USMC Osprey departs HMAS Canberra. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
RIMPAC, which runs from June 30 to August 4 and features 27 nations, 45 ships, five submarines, more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 personnel, is the world’s largest international maritime exercise. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
The Australian Defence Force has three ships, four aircraft and more than 1,650 personnel deployed to take part in RIMPAC 16. (Defence)
A United States Marine Corps MV-22B Osprey aircraft lands on board HMAS Canberra off the north east coast of Hawaii during Exercise Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) 2016. (Defence)
Australia has attended every RIMPAC since the biennial event began in 1971. The theme of RIMPAC 2016 is “Capable Adaptive Partners”. (Defence)

31 Comments

  • ST

    says:

    I might be a good idea for the Australian Defence force to buy a couple of Osprey’s, for use with these two new ships

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    It would be interesting to see if they managed to put it below deck to see how much room it takes….. love to see the MH-53 land on the deck as well as the viper and yankee.

    Pitty the deck isn’t rated for jump jets…

  • Fabian

    says:

    I really hope Australia buys the uh-1z viper and uh-1y venom to use on their ships, and can be also used on land for the army as well as the viper could be a replacement for the tiger.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fantastic news !
    I only just watched the other day on You tube the MV-22 operating from the Spanish LHD. The Footage shows the MV-22 coming out from Below deck onto the lift.
    The Spanish originally built these LHDs to have MV-22 and LCACs operate from this type of ship . The Australian LHD shouldn’t be any different.
    Not sure why the Australian Government keeps pushing for the MRH-90s, when there are better options available that suit the requirement for both Australian Army, Navy , Special Forces and LHDs
    Our forces and Equipment need to be able to operate on both land and sea as a complete package. At the moment we have holes in that package. Hopefully in the future Equipment purchases will be thought about with the Amphibious Ships in mind etc

  • Jason

    says:

    Derrick, why wouldn’t the deck be “rated for jump jets”?

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, heat treatment on the deck. The US had to add another layer of heat treatment pant to the wasp class landing ships, it would be the same if we had the v-22 and f-35B running of the two Australian landing ships

  • David

    says:

    Jason

    There would be zero issues operating an AV-8B from the LHD’s. They would actually be able to drag a heavier load of fuel and weapons off them due to the ski jump. Embarking them for a cruise would be a different matter due to the internal set up of the ships.

  • ULISES VELEZ

    says:

    THE MV-22 OSPREY GOOD FLYING MACHINE BUT VERY EXPENSIVE. OVER $80 MILLION DOLLARS EACH.

  • Query,..given the weight issue of our M1A1SA’s,and the lack of foresight in our Naval Architects in factoring this weight in the design of our new 12 Spanish LCMs ..would a LCAC fit in her? And if so,…solution to the weight problem, with speed and range! Then the problem arises who operates her,..Navy/Army or Wingless RAAF ?/

  • Jason

    says:

    Gordon you’re spot on with the LCAC , from what I have read on the Spanish LHD, it was built to accept a LCAC. Not sure why the Australian Government didn’t opt for this solution. I’m pretty sure the US Military would sell us some of these at a good rate . The US Military is already designing a new LCAC from what I’ve read.

  • Scott M

    says:

    ULISES VELEZ

    NH90 is 70 million so not much difference

  • Harry

    says:

    You guys are dreaming! As interesting as it would be to have V-22s or F-35bs operating off the LHDs, Australia simply has no, I repeat, no strategic need for them. Plus the cost of those assets would eat into the Air force F-35 program and the Armies modernisation. Not to mention eating into the subs program. Attack helicopters are, however, needed for the LHDs, such as the Vipers/Venoms/Tigers or what have you.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Harry, in the near future we will need to have the f35B and or a new heavy lift for the navy to operate from the LHD. I’m guessing some forward planning is needed as currently the whole of the Asia Pacific is locked into a arms race. Look at Japan, Korea, India, Indonesia and china to name a few..

  • Harry

    says:

    Cant disagree with you on the second point… but the first point… The F35B has been specifically ruled out by the military and Abbott, the only one who wouldve bought them, was persuaded. Cant see it happening. Re the heavy lift. The whole reason we got the dodgy NH90s was for the LHDs, not to mention the tigers. But I see it also operating Chinooks. So, yeah I agree heavy lift would be needed. Just dont count on it being the V-22s!

  • Fabian

    says:

    Maybe 5-10 v-22s will do the job and maybe a couple purchases of the venoms and viper. The navy is getting new Seahawks and the army and navy will be operating the MRH 90. The venoms and viper can be a joint army and navy helicopter program.

  • Jason

    says:

    Why would we buy the UH-1Y when we already have the MRH 90? Plus, the AH-1Z will be out of production in 2020, and despite having modern systems in still based on a 50 year old design.

    Instead, we should be looking at something newer that will be coming on line around the time the ARHs are scheduled to be replaced in the late 2020s such as the S-97 Raider, or an armed version of the MQ-8C Fire Scout, or even the DARPA-funded Tern ‘tail-sitter’ UAS?

  • Jason

    says:

    …plus, the V-22 has been on a ADF wish list for many years, but is currently considered too expensive to operate and support for the small numbers we would be able to operate.

  • Derrick Aguero

    says:

    Jason, what about the Bell V-280, by late 2020. Just in time for the replacement of the blackhawks and NH-90, I can see the s-97 going into cost over runs and it’s a large helicopter with a small cabin…

  • Harry

    says:

    Jason, couldn’t agree more with those assessments! By the time we have learnt how to do amphibious operations properly and efficiently – with NH90s, Romeos & Tigers – we might have the chance of upgrading the sea-lift capacity to s-97s and V-280s or what have you. Currently, V-22s are unrealistic, as are the Vietnam-era armed Heuys and Cobras/Venoms. But we will also need some attack capability either in the S-97s or what not.

  • steve

    says:

    have any of the clowns who are advocating the purchase of helicopters lacking wheels ever worked on anything other than the 1:72 scale version of such?

  • Jason

    says:

    Steve – the “clowns” in the USMC seem to manage with skids ok!

    Derrick – the V280 is more of a Black Hawk replacement, the S-97 is an attack/ARH machine.

  • Steve

    says:

    So the answer is no then

  • Blacky

    says:

    Helicopters on skids on ship decks in anything above sea state 1 and a half are about as effective as a bead of water on a truck windscreen!!! Don’t even bother, she wont stick.

  • Jason

    says:

    Again, the USMC takes AH-1Zs & UH-1Ys to sea quite happily aboard their LHDs, LHAs and LPDs!

  • Blacky

    says:

    History tells the US military aren’t opposed to helicopters tipping off the side of ships anyway….skids just make the job easier.

  • Fabian

    says:

    Guys
    the s-97 raider is a light attack and scout helicopter, something that the old oh-58 kiowas would do, not to heavily armed and can carry troopsas well as scout. the s-97 is going to replace the kiowas in the US army. The viper is not an Vietnam era heli. The viper is slightly different to the cobra, it’s younger brother. The viper is heavy attack, and armed and updated controls were added. Bassicly saying, it is as technologically advanced as the Apache and further. + Jason, you said that it is supposed to stop production in 2020. Although they will continue to upgrade and the aircraft. The venom is a utility helicopter. Can fire 70 mm rockets and machine gun fire can be operated by crew, these aircraft can be used as CAS and the tiger is having a lot of trouble, by 2020, the viper is way better than the tiger, unless the US or Europeans create some sort of stealth helicopter.

  • Jason

    says:

    Fabian – you probably need to re-read and edit your comments before posting, as they often make little sense.

    I’d like to read your sources that say “the Viper is way better than the Tiger.” I doubt many Tiger operators would agree with you.

    The only real advantage of going with Viper is that it is comparatively low risk, has an established sustainment system for a common fleet of 200+ machines, and can be bought FMS. It offers no real capability enhancement over Tiger. The original requirement called for an armed reconnaissance helo, not an attack helo, and Tiger fits that bill.

    The troubles Tiger is having are in support/sustainment, it’s a little underpowered in hot/high areas, the HMI can be “fiddly”, and there are still some airworthiness issues due to European documentation. The comms bugs have all but been worked out, and the gun and sight combination are world’s best.

    And as I said, Viper production will end in 2020, and the Australian Army isn’t looking to replace Tiger until the “mid 2020s”, so unless Tiger replacement is brought forward or there are new orders to bridge the production gap, Viper likely won’t be in the mix.

  • Blacky

    says:

    Jason,
    Tiger has a proven history of being a poor performer in the Australian dust and heat environments. It comes not a moment too soon that the defence force have decided to give it the good news and relieve it from its pain!

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Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

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