Premium Podcast: Using drones to bring the story of Uluru to life

In this special premium podcast, Matthew Cameron-Smith, CEO of Voyages Indigenous Tourism, tells Jake Nelson how the show came to be and how it is honouring the local Country and culture.

Transcript (Generated by Otter.ai)

Jake Nelson

Hello, everyone. I’m Jake Nelson. Welcome to the Australian Aviation podcast. Now a phenomenon that has been quite literally taking off around the world in recent years is the drone show, massive aerial light displays produced by drones all working in concert. We’ve already seen them in some of Australia’s biggest cities, and they’ve even been proposed as a replacement for New Year’s Eve fireworks. The world’s biggest ongoing drone show Wintjiri Wiru opened at Uluru. The show features more than 1,000 drones and was developed in extensive consultation with the local Anangu people. Matthew Cameron Smith is the CEO of Voyages Indigenous Tourism, the owner of Ayers Rock Resort and the company behind Wintjiri Wiru, and he joins us now. Matthew, welcome.

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Thank you. Good to see you.

Jake Nelson

So just to start with, tell us a bit about yourself, first of all, and how you came to head up Voyages Indigenous Tourism.

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Sure, so I’ve been around the tourism industry for about three years now. Worked with Tourism Australia many years ago on developing their signature experiences. And part of that was indigenous tourism. I think from then on, I always had a deep respect and a deep admiration for our First Nations culture. And several years ago, I was approached to join Voyages and I jumped at the chance despite the pandemic.

Jake Nelson

So how has the pandemic impacted things at Ayers Rock Resort?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Think like any regional tourism, organisation or location, it was a very, very difficult few years, we’re rebuilding and rebuilding from a staffing perspective from an operational perspective, supply chain and critically aviation, but delighted to say we are fully operational. We are fully staffed and we’re very excited to be launching new experiences.

Jake Nelson

Now, of course, one of these new experiences is Wintjiri Wiru. Tell us a bit about it. What’s the concept behind it, and what story does it tell?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Sure, Jake, so I think what’s interesting about this experience is that it’s not- the ending point was not the starting point. So we started by scouring the world looking for the greatest light and sound experience we could find. And we landed on drone technologies, talking to a company of Bruce Ramus is the artist and producer behind the creative side of it. We started to talk to Bruce about five years ago, what it could look like. Where it really came to life was when we went to the local community, the other new people, and said, look, we’ve got this concept. If we can get this up, what story do you want us to tell? And we went on this amazing journey with the community, two years of consultation to have the Mala story approved. So Wintjiri Wiru, which translates broadly in Pitjantjatjara, which is the language of the Anangu, to “a beautiful view to the horizon”, which is the name the Anangu have given this amazing experience, it tells the Mala story as told between Kaltukatjara, which is Docker River, and Mutitjulu. And it’s a very ancient story. It’s very spiritual and very sacred to Uluru itself. So we’re very proud to bring it to life in a way it’s never been done before. It’s an ancient story told for generations told with cutting edge technology.

Jake Nelson

What was the impetus for coming up with Wintjiri Wiru? What sort of audiences were you hoping to attract?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

A combination, really. So we’ve had great success with the Field of Light, which has been going for six years now, in terms of an artistic installation, but you can’t rest on laurels in terms of offering new experiences and new reasons to reappraise visitation or reasons to come back. And we wanted to use technology and the world’s first but make sure it was true to place and that we honoured local culture. And that’s really the I guess, the blend that we have now in terms of this amazing deck that we’ve built in front of Uluru. And you know, we’re now proudly operating the largest ongoing drone show anywhere in the world.

Jake Nelson

So you mentioned honouring the local culture walk us through the involvement of the local Anangu people in the development of the show, because they’ve had pretty extensive input, haven’t they?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Absolutely. So we formed a consultation group, and that became a working group. So once we settled on the Mala story being the content, we had to engage the people who have the right cultural authority to be able to share that story. So we worked with a group of very senior Anangu leaders, and every single word, every single tone, every single image, every dot in every image has been approved by that group, which is why it took two years to get right. And it was important that we did it the right way. We engaged the Centre of Arts Law to ensure everyone was paid appropriately for their time and for the content. So it really has been developed in lockstep with community.

Jake Nelson

And these local First Nations communities were among the first people to see the finished product.

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Yeah, absolutely. So it was important that they were happy with it – we had schematics, we had, you know, we had renders, we had all sorts of iterations via computers, but nothing is quite like seeing it in its totality. And so it’s a combination of lasers, of the drones, and of their own voices, you know, importantly, this group also voiced the narrative behind the story, so they had to be happy with it. And so it wasn’t just the working group, it was actually the whole community that we did several shows to show them and it’s been amazing to see the kids come and the kids are drawing images now in school of the show. And so the elders are delighted that the kids are engaged in their culture.

Jake Nelson

So most of our listeners probably won’t be familiar with the Mala story. Can you give us some idea about what the Mala story is?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Sure, so the Mala story begins when the Mala people raised the Inma pole, which is the sacred pole, Inma’s a sacred ceremony. When the pole was raised, the Wintalka men came over the edge of the of the sand dunes and wanted to join but of course, that’s not appropriate, that enraged the Wintalka men and they summoned an evil shapeshifting spirit called Kurpan. And that spirit changed into rocks and trees, and the birds then finally the Devil Dog Kurpan, which killed many of the Mala men and spared the women. And it’s believed those Mala men are still buried beneath Uluru today, and that Kurpan’s footprints are actually in Uluru. So it’s a very, very local, very sacred and very ancient story.

Jake Nelson

And how are these drones- what are some of the images that are bringing this story to life?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Sure, so some images you’ll see brought to life are actually literal translations of what you see painted in caves inside of Uluru. But you’re going to get inside there if you’re escorted by by Anangu to show you because they have the rights to go beyond some of the pathways. So you’ll see some of those shapeshifting spirits appear, the trees, the rocks, the birds, the kingfisher woman who tried to warn the Mala people that danger was approaching. And then finally this enormous head of Kurpan the Devil Dog which appears, and then the songline that then forms part of this image, so it’s 1100 drones animating to tell this story with lasers, [inaudible] on the ground, and then importantly, a voiceover from the local community to tell the story in their own language translated into English.

Jake Nelson

All right, well, we’re going to take a quick break. But when we come back, we’re going to talk with Matthew a little more about the logistics of Wintjiri Wiru and how all those drones are operating. Alright, welcome back. You’re listening to the Australian Aviation podcast, we’re with Matthew Cameron-Smith, the CEO of Voyages Indigenous Tourism, which is currently operating the biggest ongoing drone show in the world, Wintjiri Wiru at Uluru. So can you give us some idea of what made you decide to go with drones for the show?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Sure, so it was about how do we honour place but tell this amazing story through cutting edge technology and really animate it and I guess tell it in a way that’s never been told before. And this this screen for want of a better word, the parameters of the drones, they fly about 750 metres wide, by about four kilometres deep and 100 metres high. So it’s a huge show. And it really is the scale that makes this story seem all the more amazing. And it’s these lasers coming out on the ground to show the footprints of the Devil Dog, to show the birds flying and the local scrub, the flora and fauna, the mulga scrub and the spinifex, all form part of that that backdrop. So it really is about honouring place, telling a story that’s not been told before in this way, and using this amazing technology.

Jake Nelson

And can you give us an idea of I guess how so many drones are coordinated?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Yeah, so that wasn’t easy. We have built this incredible platform. Again, another world’s first it’s a platform that houses 1280 drones in boxes of six. The boxes are air conditioned and locked and dust proof and they’re air conditioned because the battery must be able to cool to be recharged to fly again. So it was a feat of engineering just to build what we now call our second airport, our drone platform not visible from the platform where you view the show, the drones themselves fly in a, in a computerised sequence. So we have drone pilots controlling the animation. The animations are controlled from takeoff to landing. And these drones can fly around three metres per second. So they’re quite fast, the way they animate. And it really is about looking seamless, as the story is told in the sky. Now they weigh about 310 grams each and they’re quite light. So you know we are very careful around weather and other elements. But we’ve been delighted with the feedback of the show so far.

Jake Nelson

There are two different shows as part of Wintjiri Wiru. What are the differences between the shows?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Yeah, so Jake, there’s two experiences. The first one is a full dinner and show. So we’ve engaged Mark Olive who is a celebrity indigenous chef on menu creation, we’ve worked very hard on procuring new Indigenous produce. So we have an amazing beer called Tirum, which is from Jarrah Boy, and that’s a brewery on the Sunshine Coast, an Indigenous-owned business, equally and with Beech Tree Gin, which is an Indigenous-owned gin company on the Sunshine Coast, Yaru Water, which is an Indigenous-owned water company. So it’s about all those elements coming together to create this amazing cocktail style dinner with cocktails, we partner with Penfolds for the wines. And then the story starts in itself and you can sit and relax and have your cheese board and your wine, watch the story, have another drink, so it’s a full dinner and show experience. And the second experience is more geared around the families who have done something else that night, and want to just see the show rather than have the full dinner. So it’s a snack, it’s Indigenous-inspired desserts, and seeing the show itself. So one is called the full dinner, and one is called Wintjiri Wiru After Dark, which is the show- it’s the show only.

Jake Nelson

Now, obviously, the local natural environment would be, is ancient and fragile and sacred, as as has been mentioned, to the Anangu people. How have you minimised the impact on the environment?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Yeah, that’s a great question. So in the beginning, this project was called Tread Lightly, because we wanted to make sure we didn’t harm the environment and that we honoured culture. So the site we’ve picked is a natural sand dune, you can’t see the platform from the road, so it’s got a great sense of arrival to it. It’s built from amazing hardwood. We’ve engaged local artists to engrave their artistry, Christine Brumby’s the artist we’ve used on the deck and it’s all backlit. But the deck itself, no concrete was poured whatsoever. So it’s all screw-in pylon technology that we haven’t disrupted the earth. We had environmental studies done. So we have, our walkway actually curves, and that’s to protect the skink nests that are in that area so that they can move around under the walkway undisturbed. We did light testing and decibel testing to make sure that the animals wouldn’t be disturbed. And that platform could literally be lifted up and moved if we needed to without disrupting the sand dunes, so we’ve revegetated what we cleared, and we continue to make sure we care for Country as well as care for culture.

Jake Nelson

You mentioned before some of the feedback that you’ve been receiving, now it is still early days, but how have things been going so far?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Surpassed expectations. You know, we’re you never know with this sort of thing as to how you’ll go. And we did some testing early, we tested some consumers, we tested some trade partners. And of course, we engage the community in terms of the content. But so far, people have just been amazed at not just the technology, but how the technology meets culture. And what’s been lovely to see and read with media globally, is the focus on the storytelling component as well as the technology components. So yes, it’s a world first, yes it’s the biggest in the world. But the real hero here is telling this story of the Anangu and the Mala story in a way it hasn’t been told before. So we’re really proud of that.

Jake Nelson

And are you getting- what’s sort of the split between domestic and international visitors?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Well, International is still rebuilding for us as a country, let alone us as a as an operator in Central Australia. Ordinarily, we would have been about half and half prior to the pandemic. Right now we’re sitting at about 80 per cent domestic and 20 per cent international, but it’s growing. And there’s always a natural shift, there’s outbound picks up and inbound picks up as aviation environment improves, more capacity comes on. And we think that moving into next year, we’ll see some normalization in terms of our business mix.

Jake Nelson

And you mentioned that you’ve already seen plenty of interest from around the world?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Absolutely. So we timed our launch to coincide with the Australian Tourism Exchange, which is a major business to business event that Tourism Australia operate. And we had some pre- and post-educational trips come through from both media and trade. And the response to trade and media from around the world has been nothing short of brilliant. So we believe it’ll be a great success. But like anything, it has to build momentum. And that’s really our focus right now.

Jake Nelson

And this is an ongoing show, is it intended to be sort of a permanent fixture?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

I think as long as it can be, we’ve had an agreement with the community for around five years for the current content, we can refresh the content down the track, but we need to give it a chance to grow and to really bed in and operationally hone our delivery. So, bit like the Field of Light. You know, we started with a one-year deal and six years later, still as popular as it was on day one. So we think that this as an experience will resonate globally. And we’re looking forward to welcoming back markets like Japan and like Asia, so Southeast Asia, North Asia, to really experience the culture in a unique way.

Jake Nelson

Alright, well we’re gonna go for another quick break. But when we come back, we’re going to be talking more with Matthew about some of the other aspects of the show. All right, welcome back. So the drones are not the only part of the Wintjiri Wiru experience, as we’ve touched on already. What are some of the other more notable aspects of the show in your mind?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Sure. So I think the first thing that really hits you is place. So you walk up this walkway, you walk out of the sand, you know, right in front of you is Uluru on dusk. And what’s amazing is behind you, the first hero is really Kata Tjuta, as the sun sets on Kata Tjuta and the lights change across Uluru. As the lights dim, that’s when, as you’re having a cocktail and amazing cocktail food, that’s when the show begins as you’re seated on this deck. And we have 11 lasers that are built into the desert, but actually bring the desert to life. And that spans for six kilometres into the desert. It’s hard to try and imagine without being there, but it’s quite an expansive ground show first, to set the scene, as the story begins to be told, then the drones ascend into the sky, to complete the story. And then those lights on the ground really are quite spectacular. People kind of freeze, you know, they sort of sit there in awe and even after the show finishes, they don’t want to move because you’re just happy being soft and quiet in this in this place, with the shadow of Uluru, the silhouette of Uluru in the foreground. So I think the real impact is where you are, not just what you see.

Jake Nelson

And also what you hear as well is an important part because you mentioned that the voices of the Anangu people are involved as well?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Yeah, absolutely. So the Inma is the sacred songs that are sung by the local community, the voiceover to narrate the show, both in English, and in Pitjantjatjara. It’s all local community. So there really is, I guess, a lockstep approach to this storytelling piece. And that’s been a real eye opener for us in many ways where we can really sit with community and learn as part of this process. And we have we learned a lot during this consultation, it surrounds both how to work with community, but also the depth and I guess the importance and the cultural significance of these stories.

Jake Nelson

How do you think the show is conveying the importance of these stories to the local community?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

I think what the show does, it gives everyone a sense of place. And it’s not just about Uluru itself, but what Uluru means in terms of the cultural significance. And there are many stories around Uluru and the Mala story is just one. And it’s important that when you visit an area like this, when you’re looking at respecting Country and culture is take the time to understand not just see, and understand the why behind the culture and the beauty and the diversity of culture. It’s, it’s told through storytelling, through art, through song, through dance. And this show brings together those, those various elements. But there’s more. You know, there’s the gallery of Central Australia in Uluru, which supports 22 art centres around the APY lands, focusing just on desert art. That’s all ethical art sales. So the artist sets the sell price, and the artist gets the revenue. So at all touch points, it’s about making sure that we’re supporting community economically, culturally, and giving the guests an amazing experience.

Jake Nelson

Looking more broadly, do you think we’ll see ongoing drone shows become more widespread in the tourism sector?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

I do. And I think what’s unique about this show is it’s ongoing, there are many drone shows around the world. And as you said, in your opening, we’re seeing more and more drone shows perform, at Vivid recently, at the Olympics, the Queen’s Jubilee, you know, amazing shows, but they’re all about a festival or an event – they’re up for a couple of nights, and they go and they move off. The unique part of this is we had to build a facility to house it as a permanent drone show. And it is the largest of its kind. So there’s another one in Disney, but it’s, it’s a bit smaller. And I do think you’ll see more as technology evolves. And this technology is amazing. So we use what’s called an overflow drone. And it’s an animating drone that flies in sequence. Most people think about a drone and think about one guy with a remote control flying a drone up and down. They’re amazing. But to see 1200 drones in a swarm is quite spectacular. I think you will see more storytelling experiences evolve.

Jake Nelson

What sort of locations do you think lend themselves well to ongoing drone shows?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Well, I think what’s important in terms of where we are, is that it honours culture. So I think what you saw on Darling Harbour recently was, it was amazing. It tells different stories, some are commercial, some are more about culture. But I think what you’ll find is, wherever there’s a community wants to tell a story, a drone show’s a very unique way to tell a story. And if you can capture that, with the right voiceover or audio, the right background and the right story, then I think it’s pretty impactful.

Jake Nelson

Obviously, there must be something of a cost barrier to telling these stories, because I imagined 1,280 drones or however many it is are not cheap.

Matthew Cameron-Smith

It is a significant investment. It’s north of about $12 million, well north, in terms of the construction and importantly, you know, we built this platform to house 120 people, 130 people at any given time during summer, at Uluru. So you need a pretty special crew to be able to do that construction in the right way. Then the drones themselves, Nova are based in North America. They’ve been an amazing partner. They’ve helped train our pilots. So it really has been a partnership, they’re as fascinated as anyone else is in this technology and how it’s being used, because for them, most of their shows are short lived. And this is ongoing. So we’ve got a great maintenance partnership with them. We’ve got a maintenance shed, we’ve got a little drone hospital now, you know, in case, they, they don’t come out of the sky the right way. But that’s nothing the guest sees. It’s all about how we operate it and make sure it’s an amazing experience.

Jake Nelson

Now we see a fair bit of Indigenous and First Nations tourism in places like, for example, North America and New Zealand. How important do you think indigenous tourism is to Australia?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

What we’ve seen post pandemic when Australians could travel again, but could only travel within their own country, there was a real – renaissance is not the right word, necessarily, but there was a real desire to understand and learn. And I think what we’re hearing now politically and socially, there’s a need for the Country to actually understand what it means, what first culture is all about. And the reality is we have many language groups around the country. It’s a very heterogeneous culture, not one homogenous culture. And it’s different everywhere you go. So, you know, it’s curious, we travel the world, as as tourists or travellers. And we try and learn how to say hello, and goodbye in French and Italian and Japanese and wherever else we travelled to. But I wonder how many Australians learn how to say hello, and goodbye in any of the tradition languages as they travel to Country around their own homeland? So I think it’s a really, a real way of Australia embracing the beauty and the diversity of Indigenous culture.

Jake Nelson

Would you say that there’s, how much of a risk would you say that there is of sort of, for want of a better word, Disney-fying traditional cultures? You know, boiling them down to, to a theme park experience?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

That’s a really good point. And that’s what we didn’t want to happen. And that’s why I think the engagement from the working group, the step by step engagement of the working group, was so important. And if you look at a business like ours, and any tourism business, we’re a business that’s based on deadlines, we have to get things down to a certain point. And we do it again, and we do it again, what’s been a real learning for us is, when you’re working with the world’s oldest continuing culture, there’s not a deadline, you got to take your time, and you got to listen, and you’ve got to learn and understand and gain trust. And with that comes authenticity. And what I think we’ve created here is a very authentic way to tell a very ancient story. We didn’t want it to be a Disney kind of flashy thing. There’s no ads in it, there’s no commercialisation, there’s no attribution other than to the Anangu, and thanking them for their wisdom.

Jake Nelson

What’s sort of next for the Wintjiri Wiru experience? Can we see, can we expect to see perhaps some more drone shows telling telling different stories around Uluru as well, in the future?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

I don’t think we’d do a second drone show at Uluru, but you probably will see one in other parts of Australia. I think that the model itself, both in terms of how to engage a community and how to tell a story in an authentic and respectful way, would absolutely be seen elsewhere. And that would be a wonderful thing, particularly if there’s the right economic benefit to the community.

Jake Nelson

What do you think is the key thing that you want to see audiences take away from Wintjiri Wiru?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

For us, the key takeout would be understanding the story, the Mala story. And, you know, as I mentioned earlier, we just see the young kids in the Montessori school, drawing Kurpan and the Devil Dog on their doodling pads, and the teachers going, “Wow, it’s awesome. Let’s do it together.” And that never happened before. So we’re seeing both the young people engage with their own culture. And that was a real desire for the elders for that to happen. But we’re seeing generations come out here and experience Wintjiri Wiru and walk away richer for the experience. And I think that’s really the important thing. Tourism has the power to enrich people’s lives. And when you come to a place like Uluru, that’s what we want the take away to be, that you actually walk away richer for the experience.

Jake Nelson

And this is also a very sort of modern and high tech way, I suppose of engaging with a very ancient culture.

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Absolutely. And that’s probably one of the beauties where even for the community to- they saw stories that their grandmothers told them, and the great-grandparents told them in the sky, and they heard the narration. And I mean, there was tears, there was clapping, there was- there was laughter, all those things, and that’s within the community itself. So it really does mean a lot, both to the community but also to the traveling public.

Jake Nelson

Do you think it’s a way to preserve the stories and carry them into future generations or help carry them on?

Matthew Cameron-Smith

Yeah, it’s a really important point. You know, when we’re working with a culture that doesn’t have a written language, generally speaking, language is passed down often through song and through stories, and, working with the reference group with the elders, you know, these are stories they heard as kids going to bed, or kids around a campfire. So this sort of experience and this sort of activation this way, shares the story with more people, and that helps preserve culture.

Jake Nelson

All right, well that is about all the time we have for the Australian Aviation podcast today. But thank you very much to our special guest Matthew Cameron Smith from Voyages Indigenous Tourism. The Wintjiri Wiru show is running at Ayers Rock Resort. So get out to see it if you have the chance. In the meantime, thank you all so much for tuning in. And thank you again to our guest Matthew Cameron Smith. I am Jake Nelson, this is the Australian Aviation podcast and we will see you next time.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT STATEMENT

As custodians of the land, Anangu hold the Mala story from Kaltukatjara to Uluru. To share their story, RAMUS designed and produced an artistic platform using drones, light and sound to create an immersive storytelling experience.